Whopper losing its character?

I have been on a bit of a whopper kick recently and have been riding there consistently. Over the last few weeks I have noticed many of the tech features have been removed, or just dull now. From roots that are being cut out to cheater lines that take 10sec off Strava (yes I am one of those people that is addicted to Strava). The trail rides smoother but feels like some of the features that were toned down really did not need to be, and I found this to be frustrating because it’s feeling more groomed then raw old school tech. Ofcourse the trail needs to be maintained and wet spots filled. Is there some method to this? I am not sure if it has been planed this way or just people going in and doing it themselves. I don’t mean to step on toes I just want to know why it’s getting so easy to ride.



I’m with you. I rode Flipside on Tuesday and noticed a number of changes that go beyond maintenance. I share the opinion that taking away the technical features isn’t the right approach. If they’re too hard, practice them and improve your skills – don’t dumb down the trail.

The new trails at Fight are fast and smooth and a lot of fun, but we don’t need all the trails to be like that. Variety is nice.


No problem here boys. I won’t be touching another thing out there. You guys can take the 8-10k hike with your saw or axe to clear the trail after high winds blow down trees, fix bridges after the motos fuck them up. Or go out and spend two days with your family doing a section of rock work on Da Minion.

It’s all on you now. My take on it.

Cheers have fun!



I, and I’m sure everyone else, greatly appreciates the maintenance work you’ve done. Thanks for that.

All we’re saying is that everything difficult doesn’t need to be removed.


I totally agree, some of the fixes help the trail, others just are not really needed. I rode my trail bike and when I checked on Strava after my ride, my time was close to my record which was set on my XC race bike going full gas. So my feeling of the trail running faster was correct. Some of the work was a welcome sight, but some made me wonder why it needed fixing in first place. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it I guess. I have no issue with general work, but making new lines that take large chunks of time off a trail is a bit more then just filling in the wet spots.

I agree, the new stuff out at fight is speedy flow which is fun, but I go to whopper to feel like I don’t know how to ride a bike due to the tech, and to improve skills, not ride flow.

If this was only on one part of the trail or a few spots I wouldn’t bring it up, but it feels like every time I go there is a massive change somewhere along the trail.

I also use the “quick and dirty” loop to track fitness and use it as a repeatable loop that is good for training, so the fact that it’s always changing makes it hard to use as a training tool to do hot laps on. But that’s a minor problem that doesn’t really matter.

The trail is in way better shape now, and it’s not always filled with puddles, I think if changes are to be made that they need to be thought out. It’s like cutting bars, you can always cut off more but you can’t put it back on, so once a root is removed, it’s gone.

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This is not the point. Thank you for doing work in there, the wet spots are now dry and it runs better. And general trail work like clearing brush and trees is completely different then making heavy modifications to a trail. All we are saying is that the hard features don’t need to be removed, the trail is not supposed to be easy or flowy, that is what makes it a classic imo. I totally respect the general work you are doing, I just think making large changes should be strongly considered beforehand as it’s permanent to the trail. By all means keep up the good work.

Come on now. Who really enjoys grinding old school janky ass tech? It’s about as much fun as mowing the lawn in black fly season.


I guess I am weirder then I though :joy:. I love it.

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Flipside was far from “old school janky ass tech”. Regardless, if we didn’t want some tech, wouldn’t we ride rails to trails?

I, for one, enjoy a challenge. Whether that be a bit of tech or a big climb or whatever.


I seem to recall that when Flipside first opened it was smooth and flowy by Whopper standards, which is why it became so popular. It had become worn and tired over the years through use and actually lost some of its original fun.
Thanks to @Goose, it has been returned to being more like the original.
If you want roots and mud holes there’s still plenty on the other side of the powerline.


You could always skip some riding and spend a few days making the trails harder again. #nodignopride


Ha ha, for anyone missing janky ass tech with plenty of cheater lines there’s always Wrandees.


Whopper will never be easy to ride overall. I am personally fine with trail “ improvements “
You want a challenge go 10 feet further down the trail. It’s a big system with a lot of tech challenges a little more flow enhances the ride in my opinion.
There are so few people willing to give up their free time to do any trail work I am always reluctant to be negative about their work but not everyone’s vision is the same and we will never all agree that’s just how we are wired.


I really hope I haven’t offended anyone, this was not the intent. Having the amazing work done by James is way more important long term then a few new lines and whatnot. Clearly this is a hot topic. I apologize to anyone that it may have struck a nerve with. Having the trail worked on is way more important then having no work done at all. Thank you builders.


I think it was very clear that no one was complaining about mud holes being filled in, but anyway…

I can’t speak for Ryan, but two examples of things that I thought went a little too far are burying the tough root that used to have the tire nailed to it and filling in the tough, rocky section at the end, just before you come out into the open. Those were longtime features of the trail that were challenging.

My comments were only meant as a bit of constructive criticism. Again, thanks for the work you’ve done @Goose.


Hey man, been meaning to post a thank you for the work you’ve done. All of it has improved the trail as far as I’m concerned. Still lots of tech riding to be found there and elsewhere as others have pointed out.


Good point.

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This is exactly my thoughts. Most of the changes really improved the trail it was just a few spots like the one you mentioned that I kinda missed because they were always a challenge. The work James is going is exceptional everywhere else on the trail.

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My general theory is rider safety. The rocks can easily be removed around the knarly root. The reason I did that was because the old tire disappeared.

The rock work at the end. Right close to that tree about two years ago I used deadfall as a base with those three rocks across them. They have since rotten away further and the rocks were doing the same. So for safety reasons, I did what I did there. The original line is actually still there.


I’m really sorry everyone, the purpose of the comments were not to attack the whole trail. Thank you James for the good work.